#265 - You don't always know it when you see it.

[theliz13]

I kind of wonder why she was looking through the file system in the first place. Wouldn't a funny noise in the case usually be a hardware problem? Or has she exhausted her options there?

(It also seems a bit strange to me that Ellen didn't mention earlier the fact that it was all drawn, almost as if she-- or someone responsible for her actions-- were intentionally manipulating our reactions to the situation. Or at least trying to. Very transparently.)

Might have been trying to diagnose a malicious software bug tricking the Bios into operating under inappropriate settings. Or, put more simply, if you turn a computer over to have it's system fixed, they check for bugs... Where do many many viruses come from? Porn sites. So a tech fixing a computers failure and coming across porn is VERY very frequent.

[pumpkincat]

Regarding the formation of fetishes - it's a nice theory, but from what I understand, has less than solid grounding in fact. What forms a kink or a fetish is one of those chicken or egg things which every psychologist, armchair or otherwise, has a pet theory about, but as a rule, the ones who espouse the 'repetition' theory are usually ignoring some pertinent aspects of cause and effect. It's definitely a very popular theory in some more religious circles, I've seen.

(Note: I am not a shrink, merely interested in a lot of topics including what causes the human brain to go in various directions. Kind of like pinball, but with fewer Newtonian physics.)

To point out one of the primary reason this theory has shaky underpinnings, one has to consider that which came first question. Is the fetish there because of the repetition of the act, or was there an attraction to that aspect prior to all the repetition (which in the anecdote, took years)? Interviews with people with fetishes suggests that it doesn't happen that way around, but rather, when the idea of the fetish occurred to them, whether originating within the individual's imagination or introduced externally, via porn or other medium, it became a focal point. This focus does not necessarily go immediately from 0 to 80 - that is, it does not immediately become an overwhelming aspect of their sexual completion - but it is an item with which they resonate.

Said resonance doesn't even always start out as an intrinsic attraction. Sometimes it's a revulsion, sometimes it's an annoyance. However, it seems to act as a psychological nettle, hooking into their thoughts so that they return to it - so there's an aspect of repetition there, but it is repetition within itself, not via other topic.

I couldn't give you any kind of percentages to say 'this many people interviewed had this experience'. Just that in reading and discussion, this is the common experience of which I've learned, that the chicken (interest, idea, fetish) 'occurred' first, rather than being hatched from the egg.

[Kizor]

They could always call an expert for advice, but by the way things are going, that could get the shop raided by police and everyone there accidentally shot three times while escaping arrest.

They had a computer full of kiddie porn, after all.

[Chrysophase2003]

Hello. I signed up for the forums because this current comic arc covers a topic with which I have a great deal of familiarity. And, what with enjoying the comic so much, I hoped I would have the chance to sound off a little without coming off as an arrogant know it all. If I do, I apologize. That tends to be my writing style.

I have an advance degree in psychology. Behavioral therapy, to be specific. And I was mentored by an expert in the field of sexual psychology; it was actually part of my graduate thesis that was featured in the August 2006 edition of GradPSYCH magazine. I interact with a lot of people who deal with sexual compulsions, and am a closeted fetishist myself; nothing illegal or even unethical, but decidedly weird to mainstream society. So, the study of how fetishes and sexual compulsions form is something I can talk about with some degree of authority.

Fetishes can indeed develop as a result of repeated exposure to sexually deviant material. By deviant I am not making a moral judgment but am indicating thoughts and/or conduct incongruous with the standards of heterosexual and homosexual behavior first established and documented by Ira Riess and Kinsey quite a long time ago.

The majority of fetishes which are socially unacceptable or, to our eyes, downright reprehensible are present in persons often before they even hit puberty, manifesting in fixations on topics, but due to immaturity lacking the sexual component. In this way, pedophiles, necrophiliacs, copraphiliacs and the like can be said to be born, not made.

Now, the non-intuitive thing here is that failing to feed a fetish does not stamp it out, like it would chemical and even some psychological addictions. Instead, denying oneself these deviant thoughts and fantasies results in a backlash effect, much like an addict falling off the wagon and going on a bender far worse than they would normally.

The standard of dealing with fetishes wherein a person poses a danger to others is aversion therapy, but this is reliant on the fetishist actively working to get better, and even then the reason the fetish is first experienced is because it provides the fetishist with a sense of extreme pleasure. In other words, developing a fetish is easier than getting rid of one since it's developing a way for a person to take more sexual enjoyment out of something they wouldn't normally as opposed to feeling a sense of misery over something they wouldn't normally. The most common form of aversion therapy is for the fetishist to use smelling salts whenever he/she finds him/herself beginning to fixate or fantasize. The success rate of this, even in those who remain diligent, is quite low.

Diversion therapy, on the other hand, is proving very promising. The idea is to establish a very clear divide between thought and action, reality and fantasy, a regular romantic life and the fetish. I have employed this on myself with great results, as I now am happily engaged without my fetishes becoming involved. What's typically done is that the fetishist, when he finds himself beginning to fixate, uses computer-generated and drawn fetish pornography instead of going after the real thing, gradually moving the focus of the fetish from living, breathing people to beings purely of the imagination. That way, the fetish dwells entirely in the imagination and does not intrude into daily life.

For this reason, I believe that computer-generated and drawn images of all types of fetish pornography should be legally available, even if I am personally bothered by the idea of children and/or minors being exploited, even in fiction.

[Woock]

Well that was pretty informative. Thanks!

[SPIKE]

Yea the slippery slope argument is usually BS unless it pertains to something like an addictive substance. On the other hand who the Japanese tend to sexualize can be.... well lets just say problematic especialy given the wide availability of there media.

Funny though; my first thought when I heard it was drawn was that some visiting mangaka was going to show up and try to sue their business for lost profits when he got hassled by the cops. It ending with him guilt tripping them for "there" backwards morals and storming off leaving them confused and agitated.

[Chrysophase2003]

Spike, Woock, thank you for taking the time to read. I know I can be a bit long-winded. It comes from writing so many term papers.

In any case, Spike, you raise an excellent question about the Japanese. Despite having a population less than 1/4 of the United States, Japan consumes almost ten times the amount of violent pornography that we do, and they allow the depiction of minors and children in drawn format without any form of censure or regulation. Yet, for the whole of Japan, more than 100 million people, they have fewer violent crimes (including sex crimes) occur in the course of a year than our city of New York (8 million people) alone. It brings several things into question: Is this because Japanese citizens have been socialized differently? Is it because the individual Japanese person is less prone to want to even commit violent acts? And if so, what is the deciding factor? Is sexually deviant behavior as prevalent there, and if so why is it not acted upon like it is here?

Personally, I believe their social structure is one with less pressure in terms of avoiding the forbidden. Legally speaking, should a person wish to pay for sex there, it's only illegal if a third-party broker is involved. The Japanese government prefers to stay out of the bedroom as much as possible. This extends to many other things which we would consider vices. I believe that our Puritanical roots are responsible for making many things taboo which, in a more accepting society, they would allow while inculcating the belief in citizens that just because you can do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. That trust in turn takes away the mystique behind what our government forbids. In other words, I'm inclined to believe that modern-day pedophilia is a sociological product aided, according to the diathesis-stress model, by a plethora of triggering events not found in other countries but common here.

And if I've gotten off-topic or strange, please forgive me. I've had a few drinks after a hard day, and if I have failed to make a point, say so and I'll be happy to clarify once I've sobered.

[SPIKE]

Really? That much less? Manga and anime, and there movies had me believing that every buss and train was a mobile sexual assault platform for any female, and don't women get there own car there too? Well that's is the case it's just another way the Japanese are better than us. I know media isn't a solid barometer for a culture but I think it can give a good idea of how a culture views it's self.

The problem however with the Japaneses social structure is that there seem to be very few mechanisms to facilitate what most would consider normal dating. So much so that maid and host establishments are more about having a fake relationship than any kind of sexual thing. To the point that patrons bu there favorite maid or butler gifts. Read Tokyo vice for more on that and a depression that'll follow you around for a day. Also for a good example of an un empowered female netflix man, woman & the wall, it's a odd Japanese movie pretty much entirely about stalking.

[Packbat]

Personally, I believe their social structure is one with less pressure in terms of avoiding the forbidden. Legally speaking, should a person wish to pay for sex there, it's only illegal if a third-party broker is involved. The Japanese government prefers to stay out of the bedroom as much as possible. This extends to many other things which we would consider vices. I believe that our Puritanical roots are responsible for making many things taboo which, in a more accepting society, they would allow while inculcating the belief in citizens that just because you can do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. That trust in turn takes away the mystique behind what our government forbids. In other words, I'm inclined to believe that modern-day pedophilia is a sociological product aided, according to the diathesis-stress model, by a plethora of triggering events not found in other countries but common here.

I wonder if there are other good test cases for that theory. Would it predict that, say, San Francisco should have fewer sex crimes than Columbus, Ohio?

[GreatLimmick]

I want to go ahead and say that I'm not an expert on anything, but from what I've heard, there's a lot of pressure in Japan to conform to what is perceived as normal. Some of their myths carry the message that there is an absolute correct way to do things if you want to have a successful life, and not even the gods can defy that natural order. I don't know how frequently women get groped on their overcrowded trains, largely because it's seldom reported because the victims don't want to make a big fuss, but the female-only cars have proven rather popular. Maybe their legal system is more permissive about some things we would consider vices, but that could have something to do with a desire to pretend that such things don't happen.

And if that seemed kind of incoherent, it's because I wrote it about two hours after I should have gone to sleep.